Editorial Cartoonist from South Dakota
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July 17th, 2012 | Art, Event Center, Food, Photography, Sioux Falls
Actually, I have to give props to my cousin who lives in Florida, she snapped this picture, but it seemed like it fit . . .
I attended 13 months of EC meetings (2009 Task Force) and many of the Mayor’s EC presentations (2011).
The Mayor and his Team conveyed many half-truths to the public in their presentations. It worked to get the vote passed, but these are misrepresentations and false assumptions that will surface over the upcoming years. I wonder what the “spin” will be then!!??
Some, but not all, of the reasons for not supporting an EC downtown were:
**The railroad relocation issue had not been resolved.
The proposed DT location for an EC was just north of Cherpa. When I asked Don Dethlefs of Sink Combs Dethlefs about the proximity of the tracks, his reply was, “we’re going to design the building so it is curved on that corner to accommodate the tracks”.
***The DT EC would have been a stand-alone facility with NO major tenant. (Don’t read into this that I believe convention business will be a successful major tenant at the current site. I know from being at the 2009 EC Task Force meetings that they came to this conclusion by default — they had no other major tenant to submit to CSL for the pro forma.)
With just these two reasons alone, do you really believe that Sioux Falls voters would have cast a “YES” vote for a DT EC?
I have often contended that ‘ANYWHERE’ but the Arena location would have been better. If they wanted to see the best economic impact they would have built it on the land Sanford was willing to give us. While I would have like to see it DT (which would have been more of an economic impact then the arena site) I still think the Arena site is doomed.
CR, thank you very much. You made a point and an argument. I think voters would have approved a DT EC if that’s what had been proposed and put on the ballot. Whether or not voters would have chosen it in a head to head election is another question we won’t know (frankly I don’t care).
DL, you made a lot of claims about economics but didn’t have any examples or arguments why they were true other than quoting yourself.
Do I have to?
There have been several studies, as Bond has pointed out, that the DT location would have had a bigger EC impact. But I think a monkey could figure that out.
I’m not going to try to change your mind, it sounds like it has already been made up.
But it is kinda like when I decided to buy a home DT. I wanted to be in a neighborhood that was established and I have never regretted it.
Well I haven’t seen any studies that indicate that, they may change my mind although it won’t matter much.
I’ve got my own neighborhood I wish would get some city-funded attraction to drive traffic and home prices, there aren’t any good places to eat here.
@Justin – FYI – Freeways are specifically designed to handle LOW VOLUMES of traffic at HIGH SPEEDS. Meanwhilke, grid street systems are designed to handle HIGH VOLUMES of traffic at LOW SPEEDS.
What do you get when you try to put high volumes of traffic on freeways – answer: Standstill. Nobody going anywhere fast.
DT freeway would make traffic WORSE – not better.
Facts – from the DT location there are 5 routes to freeways that are ALL less distance than the 3 – total from the Arena site.
The Arena site will have WORSE traffic problems than the DT site would have had.
Ask ANY traffic engineer.
FACT: You have never been to a “real” concert if you believe the existing infrastructure can handle the in and out traffic in a way that wouldn’t make the paying public spend an extra hour in gridlock in your neighborhood just because you want them to come to your neighborhood.
Also, ask anybody that actually understands business how investing in real estate with poor access works.
I’ll wait to see your references from traffic engineers.
Ruf is right. I have been told by people who even work for the city and helped with the parking and traffic study tell me the same thing. DT would have been a better location, just for those reasons alone.
Justin, while I can’t tell you who Ruf is, I can say this HE HAS THE CREDENTIALS, trust me.
So what’s the biggest concert you and ruf have been to?
Who would you pay over 100 bucks to see?
I saw the Police at the Qwest in 2008 and tickets were $227 (but my friend won them).
The biggest concert was probably a toss-up between Edgefest in 1999 (right outside of MPLS) and the Midtown Music Festival in Atlanta (2003). Actually in 2003 I saw a ton of good stuff. In Mpls I saw the Donnas, The Pretenders (should have say Link Wray, but the Fineline burned down that night, so I missed the concert, and luckily did not die) I also saw ‘X’ at First Avenue. In SF, I saw Dwight Yokam and Wilco (both played the Pavilion. Richard Thompson at the Orpheum and Tom Petty at the Arena. Very good year for music. But I think some of my memorable shows were at small clubs like the Pomp Room (Danzig, Fugazi, Robbie Fulks [only about 6 people at that show] Todd Snider [numerous times] SonVolt, The Rev, Supersuckers [lost a tooth]. Lucinda Williams at First Avenue, The Hellacopters at the Entry with Glucifer and the New Bomb Turks. Rancid in Seattle.
I could go on and on . . .
I would pay well over $100 to see Tom Waits in concert, my musical hero.
Tell me the arena site was a good idea when;
1. It’s profitable
2. It pays back the taxpayers who paid for it.
3. We don’t have to add more parking since they said we had plenty
Until those things happen it’s not a good idea. It’s a big freakin’ loan that 100% of us pay for with money meant to be used for things OTHER than events centers.
Give me $350,000 and I can convince some people my idea is good too.
Successful? We’ve successfully borrowed a ton of money. Success hasn’t happened yet for the arena. NOt even close.
I saw Tom Waits in Boston on the Mule Variations tour. Transplendent. I paid 800 for two front row Neil Young tickets and gave one away at Nokia live.
I’m glad to hear we will both be customers. That’s what I wanted to hear.
The reason this will be a success even if it is cash flow negative is people want culture and to feel able to have these experiences, and SD can’t do anything to keep its best and brightest home. At least trying to compete with Sioux City and Rapid is a step forward.
we can argue about the location but it isn’t going to change anything. I think we have a lot in common even though we haven’t been using tones that most intellectuals use.
And to the other guy, here is 350,000. Not sure what kind of units you wanted or what it relates to, but sure, show me the plan.
Speaking of paying for things you don’t want, I want my money back for paying for your kids’ school, anybody that thinks that argument is going to fly.
…ask anybody that actually understands business…
Based on the posts you’ve accumulated here of late, I’d be curious to know your business background. You do understand why business teachers are teachers don’t you?
I’m glad to hear we will both be customers. That’s what I wanted to hear.
Customers of what? There’s nothing they can put in that 12,000 seat building for $100 that will get me in the place. Third class sporting teams. Over the hill bands. That’s all the place can offer. Nothing more than what we can currently serve up.
Did I say I was going to be a customer at the new EC?
If you wont be a customer your opinions are as biased as I thought. Another person begging for us to subsidize your neighborhood for a facility you don’t want.
No I’m not a professor. But I understand if you went to school in state and were taught by either Staggers or Blanchard why you might have low opinions of the profession.
Apparently fifth grade where they teach the difference between fact and opinion wasn’t well staffed for you either. If I were a debate coach I would explain to you how to use facts to back up your opinion.
But paying for your kids school isn’t my job so educating you certainly isn’t. And subsidizing a bunch of old farts that want their property values to go up while not attending any events is certainly not my responsibility.
We know this much about Justin so far, he is willing to drop $800 for concert tickets and he worked on Wall Street. Having spent a great deal of time in the east coast, these two things fit with the overpaid, over opinionated Wall Street crowd. I am glad you are here to help us understand the mentality of Wall Street greed.
I have no illusion or desire to offend Justin in this comment. We in South Dakota don’t get to see the thought process of the east coast first hand. The more some people speak or write, the more we see the soul. Keep participating Justin, we need and appreciate your opinions.
Who said I’m greedy just because I’ve done well? I thought the “libertarians” around here had respect for that?
Lots of people move back here, it won’t hurt you to hear an opinion of somebody that has a different life than you. I thought that was the point.
It seems this is less of a public blog than a place where a bunch of sheltered old men who dine on the weekend talk online to reassure themselves of their opinions six days a week.
I’m open to different things. Without meeting you anonymously online I would never have read:
“Basilica of Sacré-Cœur at 3pm mass with boys choir and me up in the dome. The closest I have ever been able to flight.”
As William Shakespeare said, “You can’t write this shit”.
Justin, never said we did not want to hear your story. Not all of us are libertarians. We are citizens who are communicating on a forum exchanging ideas with points of view. Some of us have traveled widely, lived in a couple of dozen states and have experienced a lot. It is because of these experiences, listening to other points of view is easy for me.
The Basilica of Sacré-Cœur comment you are referring has a problem? If you have ever traveled to Paris you might have visited the church. It is one of the most beautiful churches in the world. Not being a religious person, I had a chance to be in the dome during the 3pm mass with the full boys choir singing 150+ feet below me. The experience was one to never forget. You can write it anyway you want, the experience was fulfilling. The acoustics in the dome filled the air to a hypnotic point.
You actually are a welcome addition to this forum. Many things you ask and comment are on the mark. So we do enjoy your comments because this is a forum to discuss and not inhibit ideas.
Glad to get the whole story. I was just joking again how with the little boys it seemed odd.
Sacré-Cœur is my favorite place in Paris. Although I prefer to walk over by the street artists. I guess that is Monmartre though technically, right?
I’m sorry if I seem short, I know poor tone can eliminate the possibility for a great conversation!
I understand if you went to school in the state and were taught by either Staggers or Blanchard why you might have low opinions of the profession.
Justin is obviously not aware of Dr. Staggers credentials and his many years of related public service both at the state and local level.
In what ways have you contributed to our community, Justin?
Staggers has actually taught in Germany and the Ukraine and his youngest son (who he adopted) has served in the Peace Corps for several years – ALL OVER THE WORLD. You know little about Dr. Staggers and his knowledge of world matters. You best tread lightly.
BTW, Justin, how was your trip to Kansas?
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