The AL has refused to print some of my letters in the past, for various reasons, one reason they have given me is ‘accusatory’ in nature. This letter writer has accused petitioners of ‘lying’ yet doesn’t state what those ‘lies’ are. Why would the editors allow a letter that ‘accuses’ someone of lying, but the letter writer doesn’t tell us what those lies are;
They were misinformed, and one person even said that he was lied to about the reason for the petition and what they stated.
Throughout the rest of the letter, they talk about ‘lies & misinformation’ yet don’t tell us what those lies are. Are they afraid if they would print those ‘lies’ we would find them to be much more truthful then what the letter writer is claiming? I do know the Spellerberg petitioners have done their research, and last I checked, a petition signature IS NOT a vote, it just allows for something to be put on the ballot. This ain’t a done deal, far from it. This letter writer will have plenty of time to ‘inform’ people before the vote, spreading their own form of the ‘truth’.
Everyone does know this, The Indoorers have had over 6 years to raise money for their own indoor pool, and the most they have come up with is to buy some t-shirts. They also know that the location is much too small and has no room for expansion, unless of course you want to destroy the whole park, they also know that this will cause parking problems for the VA, and lastly, the only ones supporting an indoor pool are the swim teams parents who are butt hurt that they don’t have their own public facility like hockey, tennis, etc. Yet they have contributed nothing accept asking for a 100% handout from the taxpayers. Enough of the subsidies and handout to club sports in this town. You want an indoor pool? You think we really NEED one? Then go knock on the Hospital’s doors and see if they will foot the bill.
It’s always interesting to hear the defeated always blame lies, liars, facts, illegal aliens, boogeymen and God when they did pray enough.
I have had conversations with the ‘vanquished’ on the three petition issues. The pro-pool people believe they will use an indoor to capacity, it will never be a burden on the city budget. By questioning the proposed pool’s need, there have been raised voices, as if raising the tenor of the conversation is going to persuade me to change my opinion. Kind of reminds me of the Mayor getting in the face of the older woman at the Shut-up and Listen session a few weeks ago when she dared to not believe him. Dastardly old woman, how dare she not believe my PR as fact.
So Mr. and Mrs. Fleischhacker, don’t get in the face of the people you wish to persuade as I know you do. I have stood back and watched you be passionate in your convictions and move into the other person’s comfort zone. You and the Mayor would scare most people out of the room with such antics.
DL: The Indoorers have had over 6 years to raise money for their own indoor pool, and the most they have come up with is to buy some t-shirts.
That is the key right there. If they stepped up to the plate and raised some private funds like the Hockey and Tennis clubs have then I feel a lot more people would be receptive to the idea.
Right now I just envision a group of parents walking in to city hall with their palms outstretched demanding money for their little hobby. They claim an indoor pool is “priceless” yet aren’t willing to raise so much as a dollar to fund it. That doesn’t sit well with the Saturday morning coffee clubs (and like it or not – those are the people who actually vote).
As Joe Biden once said…
“Don’t tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I’ll tell you what you value.”
So if they aren’t willing to put forth any funding for this facility… how much value are they really assigning to it?
The irony of all of it is they claim this pool would be for ‘everyone’ yet they struggle with the concept of the other private indoor pools being for ‘everyone’ because they don’t get to use those pools as much as they want to. Make no mistake, they want this for the swim teams, and the rest of us will just have to wait in line if we want to use them at the prime times. Their selfishness is apparent everytime they drag those kids up to the podium at council meetings. They make fun of RC for being Podunk, but that is exactly the reason RC has one, and it is very well planned out, and has room for expansion.
Indoor pool in the little town where my aunt lives – population: 3,500. http://www.bloomerpool.com/
“They also know that the location is much too small and has no room for expansion,”
BS, the location is in no way too small for the proposed design.
” unless of course you want to destroy the whole park,”
How is adding year round use to an existing amenity destroying a park? More BS.
“they also know that this will cause parking problems for the VA, ”
Not if the VA and the City work together, Hell as I’ve stated before the end result could easily be better parking and access for both swimmers and vets. The park is accessed off Western and the VA is off both 22nd and 26th streets so they already don’t really interfere with each other. A signal at 22nd & Western would go a long way by itself of addressing the increased and year round traffic at the pool. I’d guess the City might even have one planned there already.
“and lastly, the only ones supporting an indoor pool are the swim teams parents who are butt hurt that they don’t have their own public facility like hockey, tennis, etc”
Not true either, Alice isn’t the only one who lives in the neighborhood and thinks it will be a benefit. There’s plenty of residents & visitors who would use a centrally located indoor pool year round.
And L3wis, on what basis do you make the claim that swim teams will get to dictate when they use the place and make everyone adjust their schedule to fit theirs? Pretty sure like other City owned facilities the City will make the schedule and the users will have to deal with that.
Ruf – How many private fitness center pools are there in Bloomer?
Sy,
I would be interested in your response to why the proponents have made no effort in the past six years to raise private funds for your cause.
You’d have to ask them, I’m not a swim team parent nor do I live in the neighborhood.
But, you are a very vocal proponent of an 18.5 million dollar indoor pool.
Yes, because as a resident I know it will get used heavily and I also know we can afford to build & run one.
The vote in April 2014 will let us all know what Sioux Falls taxpayers consider priorities.
So the Fleischhacker’s are at Spellerberg every day on their bully pulpit ensuring people are informed to their way of thinking? Whenever they feel they’re losing on one front they start another. If Sioux Falls NEEDS an indoor swimming pool and it’s such a grand HEALTH benefit then where were they and their pockets of money the last 30 years when the indoor pool(s) could have been built next to schools where there is lots of land, a large parking lot, access to bus routes, space to grow, and families with kids in the area? Like towns across the country, Sioux Falls has seen the green money that comes with sports tournaments and competitions. Why else would a town the size of Sioux Falls need 54 soccer fields for 3-4 months a year? Even better with swimming, is the meets can be as frequent as five days every month with 100’s to a 1,000 swimmers plus families and others. So between the swim clubs, scuba divers, synchronized swimmers and kayakers who fill the public meetings, where will the taxpaying lap swimmers and water aerobic people fit into the schedule? Will each of these special interest groups pay to play? Athleticbusiness.com says a 50-meter (Olympic) pool is only used for competitive purposes by an average of about 5 percent of the local population, whereas a leisure facility will have much broader appeal. This seems to be the point made by any number of sports organizations to include Swim USA. But the taxpayers of Sioux Falls will be the one’s to pay for not only the $19M building but also the $750K a year for normal maintenance and utilities. Sioux Falls taxpayers pay a few million dollars every year to keep the Pavilion open and the minor league teams playing a few months a year. Swim USA and other sites agree, the registration cost and other fees from competitions never pay for the actual cost of the indoor pool during the tournament. “Olympic-size pools are both a passionate rallying point for competitive swimming advocates and notorious drain on park and rec agency’s annual operating budget. Invariably, when you’re planning for pools, the competition people come out of the woodwork. They show up strong to the parks and rec meetings or the city council meetings with their kids who say, ‘We need this 50-meter pool.†(Athletic Business, 2008) Maybe those eager for the indoor pool should be thinking of the 10 and 20 year olds of today, most all if whom are not swim enthusiasts, but will be paying for a small group of people’s idea. Think 10, 20, 30 years from now the costs of utilities for an indoor Olympic facility, none of which will be wind, solar, bio fuel or geothermal generated thanks to fact challenged and shallow-thinking adults of today. For those eager for an indoor pool, they should think forward, think smart, and open up their personal bank accounts.
BTW, the opponents seem to be pushing the “we don’t oppose an indoor pool, just not at Spellerberg” line.
However, they always forget to mention that we don’t have an alternate site that we own and to go find one would easily push the project’s $18.5 million cost into the low 20s, plus you still have to spend several million $$ to fix Spellerberg and bring it up to code. So I guess what they are really saying is “all of us taxpayers should pony up another $8 million or so in order for us to support this plan” so which side is really bending the truth here?
I stopped writing letters to the AL. Those I wrote in the past 2 years were sent back for questionable reasons. A few of my letters before 2010 were published. It was a time before Huether when there was free press in our city. Nobody reads the paper anymore. There’s more pages and truth in the Shopping News. The price of the Argus is unreasonable. It was justified when there were couponsand classifieds. It’s time for Argus extinction. The shopping news can handle city legals and obituaries. They’re a paper that will not sacrifice democracy and freedom of speech for ad revenue.
Isn’t Frank Olson older, or does it just look like it was built in the 1940’s?
Frank Olson is up for replacement after Spellerberg. The $56,000 consultant recommended eliminating the pool and replacing it with a splash pad; no pool. Park and Rec Director is recommending approval of the consultants plan.
The special interests oppose an indoor public pool.
… on what basis do you make the claim that swim teams will get to dictate when they use the place and make everyone adjust their schedule to fit theirs?….
C’mon Sy, think about what you just said. What carries more weight in this town? Joe Sixpack and his kid out for a leisurely swim on a Saturday afternoon in January, or Susie Snowfox pulling into the lot with a handful of $$$$$?
Sy on 07.01.13 at 5:48 pm
BTW, the opponents seem to be pushing the “we don’t oppose an indoor pool, just not at Spellerberg†line.
Sy, I am an opponent, and I do NOT support an 18.5 million dollar taxpayer-funded indoor pool at any location. I will continue to share what I know (which is extensive) with other voters between now and April 2014.
Regardless of your feelings on the issue, that letter was poorly written and should have been rejected until they included the supposed “lies”.
A reader wanted me to leave this comment;
“Sy, apparently you are not very familiar with the Spellerberg area. There has been a signal at 22nd & Western for years.”
Jace – Stop spreading lies 🙂
Wait until the city sas they are going to close Frank Olson. There will be no pool east of Cliff Avenue until 49th street. What about all those poor kids?
I have no idea if people were lied to when they were encouraged to sign the petition, but from what I have gathered from others, there was definitely some “gray” areas.
The one thing I took from the letter is when approached with a petition, you don’t have to sign it just because it causes something to go to a vote. There is a proponent or an opponent on the other end of that pen giving you the information and as in any case – there is their side, the other side, and then the truth. Be informed and somewhat educated on a topic before Joe petitioner pressures you into something you really have no idea about.
I will continue to argue the assumed parking problems at the VA because it simply will not exist during the day (when VA employees are there) or on the weekends (when VA employees are not there). For cripes sakes – they have had hot air balloons take off in the VA parking lot on the weekends. Does that really sound like there will be a parking problem? I will also argue the fact that the swim teams will take over. Last time I checked, these athletes also go to school during the day. Sounds like a perfect time when Vets, swimming lessons for younger kids, the older generations, etc. could utilize this facility to the maximum.
Where I will not argue is if the strong belief is the swim teams should have some skin in the game. I think that is a valuable argument and as I have said before, maybe they do have dollars ready to go or are identifying a private partner. I think many are putting the horse before the cart in making statements that they have no dollars ready to contribute. I certainly do not know that. Do you?
I stand corrected, that said..there are other measures like adding a turn lane that the City could take to improve access and safety.
@ scott, I believe as part of the Aquatics plan the idea is to remodel Frank Olson and add a splash park like at Pioneer.
Speaking of Frank Olson, there’s an example of how you can screw up a neighborhood by not providing parking. Go there on softball nights and its a total CF, but guess what? People deal with it and no one is dying in the streets.
Agreed, Sy. We have played at FO multiple times this year for softball and guess what – the residential streets are lined with cars as that is the only parking over there. No one is dying, no one is complaining. You buy a house with ball fields across the street and guess what – you are going to have people parking in front of your house. Similar to when people park to go sledding, and for cripes sakes, look at McKennan Park. They have a lot for 10 cars. People that reside over there aren’t bitching. They know what they sign up for to be across from a mammoth park with tennis, ice skating, pool, concerts, etc. It’s part of being across from a park or a facility. You are buying the area that guess what? – comes with traffic and people. Spellerberg is no different. Besides, there are two other huge grassy park areas between the park at the top of the hill on 22nd and Kiwanis and the park by the zoo. We are spoiled in this area for green space. That is why we bought in this area. Yup – we have 26th, Kiwanis, 22nd, and Western as well, and we knew that also when we purchased our home.
Alice: “I will also argue the fact that the swim teams will take over. Last time I checked, these athletes also go to school during the day. Sounds like a perfect time when Vets, swimming lessons for younger kids, the older generations, etc. could utilize this facility to the maximum.”
The problem is, parents work during the day too, and non-swim team kids are also in school. So when those kids want to go for a dip in November, and when their parents actually have time to take them… guess what – the pool is reserved for several nights a week due to all of the swim clubs that have priority.
Just look at the Ice & Rec Center practice schedule for the hockey teams. Between the 10 (or so) different hockey teams, they have the ice reserved pretty much every night of the week.
So if you are not part of a team, guess how many hours a week you have to just go skate? Curious? Here are the hours:
Wednesday and Friday: 7:30 – 9pm
Saturday: 1:30 to 3:30 pm and 8 to 10 pm
Sunday: 1 to 3 pm
So there you go – kids who aren’t part of a team can choose from a whopping 9 hours of available time in any given week. 9 hours. A week.
You want to go skating on a Monday or Tuesday? Not going to happen.
Want to skate Saturday morning? Sorry.
Want to skate during the day sometime in the middle of the week? Nope.
Every weeknight has reserved time for the hockey teams, and blocks of time on the weekends are the same way. Even with that, the hockey clubs really weren’t getting enough ice time, so they took it upon themselves to raise funds to get a facility built that includes several sheets of ice to allow a lot more flexibility for practice as well as a nice place to hold games and tournaments.
So when we think about an indoor pool, we know the swim teams will make demands and they will expect to get priority hours for their teams.
So let’s assume we do build an indoor pool (doesn’t really matter where) – should these swim teams be given any consideration or be given the ‘prime hours’ for their practices when they haven’t raised so much as a single dollar towards the construction of the facility?
I have to be honest – when I see them parade in front of the city council wearing silk-screened shirts whining about a lack of an indoor pool it just makes me sick. In my view they aren’t helping their cause and they may even turn people off from the idea of an indoor pool simply due to their sense of entitlement.
They should have a little skin in the game.
I am going to disagree with your comparison of hockey to this facility. Hockey/Figure Skating/Etc has one facility designated to ice sports. When the weather cooperates – they also have the outdoor facilities and as a fungus level 2nd option – they have the Expo. An indoor pool adds to a need that has already presented itself – yet the other structures will still be in existence to offer swimming lessons, water aerobics, lap swimming, etc.
I will also say that it is a double edge sword for the swim teams. I attended one of the public input meetings and no one from the swim community was there. Guess what was being said? “If the swim teams want this facility so much, where are they?” They are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
Sioux Falls has doubled in size in the last 25 years and travel around the outskirts – it is still growing. I think many would like SF to remain the same, but we have progressed to a level where that just isn’t going to happen. People want to come her to live and visit – more so than anytime before. Facilities usually accommodate that growth – whether you like it or not.
Skin in the game? I get your argument. It seems to be working quite nicely for the new ice facility and they have worked their buns off with a ton of man hours to make it a reality.
Also, that Hockey schedule at the Ice & Rec center will open up dramatically once the Scheels Facility at Sanford is open.
One other point, IIRC the indoor pool design had a 50 M pool, and the zero entry splash park rec pool was totally separate but under the same roof. So it won’t matter when the swim teams are using it, little Johnny can still get wet and enjoy the slide. Only problem is if little Johnny wants to swim laps.
Alice: “I am going to disagree with your comparison of hockey to this facility. Hockey/Figure Skating/Etc has one facility designated to ice sports. When the weather cooperates – they also have the outdoor facilities and as a fungus level 2nd option – they have the Expo.”
Not sure I see the difference. The swim teams already have several options as well. They have the YWCA/YMCA and Dow Rummel pools as indoor options, and they use Frank Olsen and Kuehn Park for outdoor options (as you say… when the weather permits). Either way they bump people that otherwise would use the facilities – and I doubt that will change with a new facility, because they have already displayed a certain hubris which suggests they feel this is “their” facility even though they aren’t funding it.
I also don’t really get your point about the double-edged sword for the swim teams. It is pretty simple really – they have stated we need this facility and they have stated they wish to benefit from it. The issue is they aren’t engaged as part of the team… they are just trying to influence the policy makers via words rather than dollars.
When you think about it, they aren’t invested partners, so not showing up for meetings isn’t really surprising because they aren’t showing up financially either. Perhaps they should do a better job of organizing and work with Sanford or Avera – I have no doubt someone would step up to the plate if they felt there was a sincere need. You know what they say… you don’t deserve anything you don’t ask for.
Heck just look at what the Tennis Association did. They raised piles of money to build a complex which will have seven courts – and the city portion is something like one sixth or one seventh of the total cost. Can you image the reaction if the swim team stepped up and said… yea this facility will cost $11 million, but we have raised private funds and sponsorships to the tune of $9 million. The voters would see that and instantly wonder why we haven’t built the thing already.
Actually that isn’t even fair to the swim teams since (as Sy points out) we aren’t talking about a simple lap pool alone. So even if they raised a couple million towards the price tag it would show how sincere they are. Yet as far as I can tell, they haven’t donated a single dollar towards the pool itself.
These people want to pee in the pool but won’t even pitch in for a single chlorine tablet.
I know this is a side issue as we seem to all agree they should have some skin in the game, but I have to tell you they aren’t helping things and they are turning public opinion against them every time they wear those shirts or get quoted in the paper claiming they deserve this facility.
Sy:“So it won’t matter when the swim teams are using it, little Johnny can still get wet and enjoy the slide.”
Well I hope you’re right Sy. However, I won’t be surprised to see swim teams take over the entire facility at certain times as one lap pool soon won’t be enough for them. They might have the more advanced teams in the lap pool with the younger kids in the splash pool doing various exercises.
You also have the issue with tournaments since we keep hearing about how much revenue they will bring in to the city (lol). Will the facility have a separate entrance to the lap pool, or will visitors from other communities walk in to see a tournament and have to deal with Johnny and Suzie arguing over which color tube they should use in the lazy river as their parents are trying to pay the admission.
Either way I expect conflicts.
DL – in Bloomer, there is a “private pool” in a hotel in town. There are several in Chippewa Falls (home of Leinenkugel’s brewery) and Eau Claire (combined about the size of SF) 15 miles down the road. The point is – a Podunk town of 3500 people sees the wisdom of having a public indoor pool. Reasonable rates too. “Sophisticated” citizens of Sioux Falls – not so wise.
rufusx,
Apparently, you did not look at the link you provided for the Bloomer WI pool. It was not built with tax dollars, it was built with private dollars!!
Also, what I find interesting is the SAME swim team people who are currently asking for a 19.4m indoor pool are the SAME exact individuals who walked up to the podium at Carnegie Town Hall in 2007 during the Drake Springs debate asking for an indoor pool!!!!
Where have they been for the past SIX YEARS!!!!?
Swimming?
Apparently you didn’t look that closely – it’s profitable 🙂 – self-supporting. So why wouldn’t the same type facility in a SF park be profitable – supposedly costing over $600K a year to operate? Is there something “special” in the SF water?
ruf, considering it is in a small town without competition, it might be ‘profitable’. It’s probably supported by town donations because the town folk are so proud it is there. Wisconsin also has an income tax to help support many functions. There are many town supported indoor swimming holes in WI. Now you want us to be Wisconsin?
Where are our list of priorities, wants versus needs. You as a resident of Tea probably wants the taxpayers of Sioux Falls to pay for an indoor pool so you can use it at a Sioux Falls city subsidized rate?
rufusx says:
wouldn’t the same type facility in a SF park be profitable – supposedly costing over $600K a year to operate? Is there something “special†in the SF water?
*******************************************
Taken directly from the Mayor’s Playbook (2014-2018 Mayor’s Recommended Capital Program)
Page 73:
Operational Budget Impact $693,000 per year
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Or, $1,900 per day. (my comment!)
Testor – wrong again – I don’t live in Tea. My family founded the town 130 years ago – but don’t live there now. What I really would like to see is the town I do live in build an indoor pool. I believe that like Bloomer, we could draw enough people from the communities around us (including SF – like Bloomer draws from Eau Claire and Chippewa Falls) to support it – even though we are “tiny”.
cr – do the math then – how many annual memberships at $2/day would it take? How about $5 day passes? How about special rates for group uses – like to reserve an hour or two for an exercise class or…..? How about swim lessons?
Let’s say an average of just 100 people a day used the pool on the single use basis. Start from there, add in the other stuff. The “operational costs” are NOT after application of fees collected. That’s the full cost – BEFORE a dime is collected.
rug, I don’t really care what town you live in or are from. what is said still applies.
Capital Cost of an Indoor Pool: $19.4m + (cost of bonding: unknown)
Operational Budget Impact: $693,000 per year ($1,900 per day)
Revenue: Unknown
“Revenue: Unknown”
And the same can be said about the EC.