The largest union representing City of Sioux Falls’ employees has rejected the tentative labor agreement, an action that hasn’t occurred in at least a decade.
Officials were notified Friday that the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees voted to turn down the agreement. The union represents 450 city employees, said Maynard Magnuson, associate director of Council 59, which covers the employees and negotiates the contract.
At issue is annual raises, he said. The city offered AFSCME no annual increase in wages for the next three years, according to Magnuson. He said the parties agreed on all other points.
“The city’s not broke. They are claiming they are,” he said.
The two other city unions representing police and firefighters received 3 percent annual raises in their previously negotiated agreements.
AFSCME offered to receive less than a 3 percent increase, Magnuson said.
There is a couple of things I would like to point out, THIS IS WHY UNIONS ARE IMPORTANT. Secondly, if Non-Union employees such as department heads and Union members such as Police and Fire are getting raises, the other employees should to. While everyone would like to blame the economy and the ‘evil’ unions for this, I have often thought the biggest problem is that the city HAS TOO MANY EMPLOYEES. Stop hiring people. It doesn’t make sense for the city to continually hire new employees and consultants when they don’t have money to give raises to the current ones.
Horseshit. I guarentee you the better performers in that group would have a better shot at getting raises over the next 3 years than the group collectively. And there’s the economic rub with Unions, the worst gets paid just like the best. We as a City can fire the leadership if they are deemed lazy and/or corrupt, why shouldn’t we have that option with the guy who drives a truck?
Let ’em walk and rehire the positions with a performance based 2% bonus. The ones you hire back can call their dues their raise. The ones you don’t should go where the action is: Washington, DC..apparently it makes sense there to Unionize during the “worst Economy since the Great Depression”.
Unions have their place, even though that place should be History’s dustbin.
using sy’s logic, he should fire everyone who works for him and hire people for 20% less. after all, this is south dakota, and people work just for the joy of working. kinda sounds like communism doesn’t it?
NO doors on the city employees’ bathroom stalls neither. Except if they are monkeys.
I agree with Sy, let ’em walk. Solves having to lay them off and giving them separation wealth. Lots of more qualified people will cross that picket line.
In a down economy, police and fire are needed more than ever. Raise them and even add a few. Zoning could be cut 25%, nothing’s being built. There’s no need for 6 assistant directors in finance. Public works is a joke. Nobody even heard of Cotter until recently. We’ll not miss service that wasn’t there in the first place. Many services could be contracted privately with less people for less cost.
Scott, communism is city hall. Restaffing is the beginning of a return to constitutional democracy.
An interesting city fact (#1 of 73):
Litigation must be served to their PO box. This is recent. Apparently, there’s nobody at 9th and Main. They can work on their benefits con from home. I checked Guiness Book and nobody has ever crammed 1200 people into a PO box.
An interesting city fact (#2 of 73):
If you make a complaint against a city employee it is intercepted by the assistant city attorney and disappears. City code mandates a hearing before the city council.
An interesting city fact (#3 of 73):
A copy of city codes is not available at city hall. They are only available online at major expense from a private company.
An interesting city fact (#4 of 74):
The city does not maintain a file for city hearings. If you go to a hearing, hire your own court reporter ($35/hour). They are the only accepted reference. If you go and bring a court reporter, they’ll cancel the hearing.
We need city services. If they walk out, we could actually receive them.
Look for more interesting city facts. I’ve made a list I add to often. I’ll wait and post for when there is relevance here.
An interesting city fact (#5 of 74):
There’s no appeal into court from a city hearing. You testify against yourself. You cannot subpoena or cross examine city witnesses. You are not allowed to present evidence. Socialism, plain and simple.
I’d love to see your entire list.
An interesting city fact (#6 of 74):
Most city codes counter on another. Something is allowed in one yet denied in another. If appeal was allowed, the examiner would declare the violation unenforcable.
An interesting city fact (#7 of 74):
If a tree in your backyard dies and you remove it, the city can demand that you replace it. It’s your property but their tree.
An interesting city fact (#8 of 74):
City code mandates that 90% of your front setback be natural landscaping. Only million dollar homes on acreage (less than 5%) meet this requirement.
An interesting city fact (#9 of 74):
Terms such as setback, sideyard, etc. are often used but undefined in city codes.
An interesting city fact (#10 of 74):
Present city codes were drafted and revised by the current assistant city attorney. They really need a competant attorney.
l3wis: THIS IS WHY UNIONS ARE IMPORTANT
Why? To ensure the worst city employee is offered the same pay raise as the very best city employee? Therein lies the problem with unions – they spend so much time trying to protect the collective that they don’t have the ability of identifying those who are really deserving of more.
Granted I wouldn’t agree with offering them no raises for the next three years unless a study was done and it showed Sioux Falls city employees were overpaid in relation to their peers. I guess I’d have to hear both sides of the issue on that one, but I will say many city employees are in fact overpaid.
Gone are the days of a city, county, or state job being “public service”. These days those holding city jobs are more apt to be sucking on the public tit. Compare their salaries and benefits packages to the private sector and you suddenly find having a city job where it is nearly impossible to fire someone isn’t really that bad of a gig.
There are exceptions to the rule obviously, but when I see a parks and rec lawn mower making more than $50k a year… I’d say something is wrong.
The department heads are not Union, they make really good money and get really good raises. If you are a jackoff, you deserve at least some kind of cost of living raise, as long as you are doing your job. The bigger point is why does the city continue to hire more workers if they can’t even afford to give raise to the ones they have? Seems silly to me that they hired 21 new employees last year then turn around and go but we can’t give raises. You act like giving someone a 3% percent raise will turn them into millionaires overnight. Give me a fucking break.
I’m curious, how many left compared to the number hired. I know at least the state has had a hiring freeze, only replacing workers as they leave.
Costner ‘Gone are the days of a city … job being “public serviceâ€. … those holding city jobs are more apt to be sucking on the public tit.
You said it best.
James Milne ‘how many left compared to the number hired’?
The best way to cut is attrition and fire without severance. These fools present a perfect opportunity. When they picket in the cold, we’ll not be any worse for services. Those on the line are the ones to get rid of first. In this economy, there will be many scabs. City workers are to fat to stop them. If they do not show up and work, they get no paycheck. If they’re not sick and out more than 10 days, it’s grounds for termination.
An interesting city fact (#11 of 74):
Documents a citizen exercises with the city are one page. You sign and date at the bottom of the page. The city adds pages later. Whenever you sign, under your signature, add page 1 of 1 and initial. Ideally, bring a witness or insist on a notary.
Massive layoffs are coming to municipal, county and state governments nationwide. For far too long local politicians have acceded to too many salary and pension increases that are impossible to pay for. There are two choices – pay cuts or lay offs. Sioux Falls (and SD) will continue to whistle past the graveyard ignoring the reality of the rest of the nation (as it did in 2007 and 2008 when the recession set in). But by the end of 2010 the reality will set in.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/01/massive-layoffs-coming-in-nyc-nevada.html
The Sioux Falls union is asking for what cannot be delivered. Yet in this economy no one should propose a contract with no pay raise for 3 years as there is always the possibility that inflation could spike. Right now the union and city should go into job preservation defense, by cutting some (many) salaries and overly lavish pension benefits.
I agree partially with what you are saying. The city could layoff 25% of it’s workforce, keep the ‘quality’ employees, pay them a little better, and we still be saving millions. I don’t like people who milk the system either, like Mr. Parks and Rec worker reading novels while watering trees.
Sy says:
Horseshit. I guarentee you the better performers in that group would have a better shot at getting raises over the next 3 years than the group collectively.
Sorry Sy. Ain’t buyin into that one. Seen the best and worst of your scenario over the span of my career. Front line workers, good and bad, would ALL be working for poverty level wages if not for the ability to bargain collectively. This city is a perfect example. We all think those city guys plowing our streets at 3am in the morning are rolling in overtime union money. Far from it. The vast majority are working for under $12.00 an hour, no benefits, no anything. Just work their asses off till they reach the 1400 hours a year a part time city employee can make, then let them go and hire more part timers til they burn them out also. That’s how it works now. Part time help with ZERO benefits. That way the bean counters in management get their five to six figure yearly bonuses and can spend six weeks a year in Ixtapa instead of just four.
Sy says:
And there’s the economic rub with Unions, the worst gets paid just like the best. We as a City can fire the leadership if they are deemed lazy and/or corrupt, why shouldn’t we have that option with the guy who drives a truck?
Again, I have to disagree Sy. Rank and file dues paying members can and do get fired if they cannot perform their job. Your scenario is a myth rolled out by management every three to four years to demonize the always evil unions.
Poly- The city department heads did get bonuses, which confuses me for several reasons. 1) The city is not a ‘for-profit’ corporation. and 2) if it were, it didn’t have very good returns, ending the year -6% under from 2008.
MANY city employees are in fact overpaid.
~cos
Gotta throw out the BS flag on that one cos. And here all this time I thought you were for truth, justice, and the American way. But in reality throwin out BS is more your style. MANY cos? Try a few…damn few in fact. And those few who are overpaid are sittin behind a desk justifying their jobs by scheduling countless meetings that accomplish nothing. Jodi Schwan comes to mind. Name me ONE, just ONE front line grunt city employee who is being overpaid.
Gone are the days of a city, county, or state job being “public serviceâ€. These days those holding city jobs are more apt to be sucking on the public tit. Compare their salaries and benefits packages to the private sector and you suddenly find having a city job where it is nearly impossible to fire someone isn’t really that bad of a gig.
Again…you are full of bullshit cos. Granted, the city does have a few department heads who are overpaid. But the people you see on the streets, in public, keeping your city running are not the ones sucking off the taxpayer tit.
when I see a parks and rec lawn mower making more than $50k a year… I’d say something is wrong.
~cos
Another lie cos. That city employee you see pushin that lawn mower makes $10.25 an hour with ZERO bennies and the knowledge that when his part time quota of hours is used up the city will let him go and hire the next poor schmuck trying to make a living.
Meanwhile…management types schedule more meetings.
There’s no appeal into court from a city hearing. You testify against yourself. You cannot subpoena or cross examine city witnesses. You are not allowed to present evidence. Socialism, plain and simple.
I wouldn’t really call that socialism. It sounds more like some little prince with his own personal fiefdom who just hasn’t been properly called out on his bullshit by people with any pull.
In fact, if I were you, I’d start protesting the home-rule principality rather than socialism.
poly: Name me ONE, just ONE front line grunt city employee who is being overpaid.
Do your homework. Baseline accounting staff (non-supervisory) $25+ an hour. I won’t cite her by name because if someone wishes to know they should look it up themselves, but I know what she does and a comparable job in the private sector pays about $35k a year (finance work, non CPA related).
Forestry Caretaker (tree trimmer) $24.40 an hour. Good luck pulling down $45k in the private sector to cut tree limbs (unless you own the company).
Plans Examiner (building services division) $30+ an hour. No formal training or education…they work the front desk, fill out building permit apps etc.
Landfill equipment operator – $25+ an hour. Although seasonal heavy equipment operators can make that amount in the private sector, they aren’t guaranteed 40 hours a week plus occasional overtime and a city retirement plan.
I think you get the picture, and that was merely randomly looking at the list. I’m sure there are more extreme examples such as the employee who reads books while watering one tree at a time.
http://www.siouxfalls.org/HR/compensation_benefits/links/salaries
poly: Another lie cos. That city employee you see pushin that lawn mower makes $10.25 an hour with ZERO bennies
Actually you’re wrong. Well maybe you are half right…sure the guy pushing the mower is some seasonal kid making 10 bucks and hour, but the guy riding the $20k lawn machine and the guy trusted to water one tree at a time is considered a “Park Caretaker” and can (and does) make more than $25 an hour. (That works out to be about $52k a year in case you are curious – and that assumes zero overtime throughout the year). Heck, that guy pulls in over $38 an hour when he hits OT… not a bad gig when you get full bennies and a pension (one example can be found on page 22, but there are others as well).
Now if you can find me a private lawn mowing service that pays their guys over $25 an hour you go ahead and let me know. If you can find one that pays over $25 an hour will full benefits AND a employer sponsored pension plan that offers full retirement for 30 years of service and up to 75% retirement after 20 years – well lets just say I’ll print out a copy of this post and chew on it.
Poly:
“Ain’t buyin into that one. Seen the best and worst of your scenario over the span of my career.”
So what? Did you study the productivity levels of union vs. non-union workers? Or were you busy with the task at hand? My guess is you didn’t take notes and run some data crunching to form your opinion. Thankfully, others have:
“An analysis of data from a survey administered by the authors shows that unionized sawmills were between 12% and 21% less productive than nonunionized mills in fiscal year 1986. As predicted, when product quality and raw material usage are not included in the analysis, the estimate of union productivity is biased upward.”
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2524743
the guy trusted to water one tree at a time is considered a “Park Caretaker†and can (and does) make more than $25 an hour.
~cosm
You’ve thrown out examples of city employees who make a living wage. You got a problem with that? They prolly got years of experience to go along with that working man wage. Also as an example those landfill operators start off at much less. Same with the others.
If nothing else you’re great for comic relief. YOU get on someone for reading a book while being paid to do something else. While I do not agree with that either…just what do YOU get paid to cruise the forums ALL DAY LONG at your company provided work station?
Poly You got a problem with that?
Oh so now you try to change the subject (red herring) to make it appear I’m saying something other than what I wrote. Classic.
No poly I have no problem with people making a living wage, but to pay someone $50k a year to mow lawns and water trees is clearly out of line with what the private sector pays… you know – that was the original point of my post, so don’t try to distort my words to your liking.
The fact is any job should have a range – and once you hit the top of that range then you should stop unless you are willing to step up to the next job. I frankly don’t give a shit if someone has been mowing lawns for 25 years – the job is never – EVER – worth $50K a year plus city bennies and pension.
poly: just what do YOU get paid to cruise the forums ALL DAY LONG at your company provided work station?
Again it isn’t any of your fucking business – but I’m not on company time or sitting in a cubicle – and that is the last time I’m going to tell you. If you are so damn childish that you can’t debate a subject without making baseless accusations then I won’t have any reason to ever respond directly to your nonsense.
I guess I should be flattered though – you always go down that road when facts have been tossed in your face and you have no legitimate retort. I think we both know what that means.
Again it isn’t any of your fucking business – but I’m not on company time
~cos
BULLSHIT…and you and I both know it. We both know where you’re posting from…that being said, I will respect your rights to privacy. So… who’s the bigger scumbag? The blue collar guy reading a book while watering a tree, or a white collar scum stealing time from his employer?
We both know the answer to that one.
Cos. That park caretaker you demonized because ALL he does is trim trees is a gross character assasination. That park caretaker has worked for the city for over 30 years, and as you can see from this job description there is more to his job than just trimming trees.
https://my.siouxfalls.org/ViewPDF.aspx?name=338.pdf
Yer not just a piece of work cos…yer a piece of shit.
“I wouldn’t really call that socialism”
– Ghost of Dude
True, it’s unconstitutional and undemocratic but there’s not one good word. How about ‘Sadamism’? No, still not good.
To me it’s ‘repulsive treason’. With those who are fighting and for those who fought; I want to be sure freedom and democracy has been preserved. It’s important to prevent a mayor who never served taking away their constitutional guarrantees.
Plans Examiner (building services division) $30+ an hour. No formal training or education…they work the front desk, fill out building permit apps etc.
~cos
Another character assasination cos….why should we expect less from you. That’s what I thought.
https://my.siouxfalls.org/ViewOpening.aspx?OpeningID=334
`
Landfill equipment operator – $25+ an hour.
~cos
Another stretch of the truth cos. But then that’s your MO.
There are several Landfill Equipment Operators for the city of Sioux Falls. They have been working at their profession on average about a dozen years each. Their salary? $18 to $19 an hour.
I gave you the evidence dipshit, and if you refuse to read it that is your problem not mine. The numbers I quoted are right there in black and white from the city salary report.
But we both know how facts tend to get in the way of your idiocy.
If you knew half as much as you thought you did, you might be worthy of legitimate debate, but as it seems the only thing you can do when you are presented with facts is to rely upon the old character assasination.
FACT – two of the four city positions I cited are people I know personally…thus I have talked to them and know what they do as well as their education levels. Yes one of them has been on the job for more than a decade, but that was my point about any position having a maximum. He continues to get his 3% or 4% (sometimes even 6%) raises every year when many private firms have suspended pay raises or limited them to cost of living adjustments. The FACT is, many public positions pay better – and have much better benefits and retirement plans – than their private counterparts. Deny, deny, deny… but those are the facts, and I’ve provided evidence to support it.
FACT – If you think written job descriptions are more accurate than what the employee tells us they do, you’re even more clueles than I thought.
I think I’m done – I’ve made my points with evidence to support them and you continue to respond with insults and accusations but no facts to back them up. I’ll let others make up their own mind – I think most people are intelligent enough to know what is a fair wage for a specific position…so they can make up their own minds.
Please feel free to respond with yet another insult or accusation against me which has no basis in fact. It’s your MO.
I gave you the evidence dipshit
~cos
Evidence cos? Is that what you call it? What it actually is called is a LIE. Case in point.
Landfill equipment operator – $25+ an hour.
~cos
Your words exactly cos. Only problem is, it is a LIE. Plain and simple. Go back to your black on white city salary report, (when you can pull yourself away from your job, snicker, snicker,) and look again at the several employees who have the title “LANDFILL EQUIPMENT OPERATOR”. None of them make near what you claim they do. But then, I come to expect that from a LIAR.
We both know how facts tend to get in the way of your idiocy. Now….you’re able to read this through a portal provided by a corporate entity. That corporate entity is not paying you to read “South Dacola”, but to do YOUR job. Much the same as we ALL expect a park caretaker to do his job with his paperback in his back pocket. Now get back to work.
Page 12 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $20.65 an hour.
Page 16 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $21.47 an hour.
Page 16 of the report – lead landfill equipment operator – $25.40 an hour.
Page 20 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $22.29 an hour.
Page 21 of the report – lead landfill equipment operator – $25.40 an hour.
Page 25 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $20.65 an hour.
Yes, yes I know you are trying to argue semantics because it isn’t good enough to say “landfill equipment operator” when the title is actually “lead landfill equipment operator”. It is the same damn thing and you know it…the only difference is how long they have been on the job.
Speaking of which – do you know why you find so many city employees who have been working for the city for 15, 20, 25 years or more? Because they know they couldn’t even begin to make that much money in the private sector, and they sure as hell wouldn’t get a pension, occasional overtime (just ask a city plow operator how many hours of OT they bill each winter), or any of the other benefits.
Truth be told, if the city was really competitive with the private sector, there would be a lot higher turnover rate – and those city employees know it.
But let’s get back to your original point – you asked for me to point out at least one line level “grunt” (your chosen word) city employee who is overpaid and I’ve done so. Again – you cannot find private sector jobs that pay as well with full benefits and a pension plan… it simply will not happen.
Thus, my original point stands – there are many city employees (at all levels) which are overpaid for what they do when compared to their peers in the private sector. You know it, but when evidence is provided to refute your lunacy you immediately change the subject.
Just like how you like to make little snide comments about where I post from or the size of cubicle I sit in or how I carry the water for First Premier or whoever… because that is all you’re left with when you can’t debate the facts.
Sorry poly…thats just the world we live in – and regardless of how you attempt to change the subject, the facts don’t lie… but apparently you do.
Page 12 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $20.65 an hour.
yada…yada..
~cos
WHY did you intentionally leave these operators out cos? You see…you’re nothing more than a deceitful LIAR. The company that employs you certainly has the right man for the job.
Page 7 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $16.39 an hour.
Page 17 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $17.72 an hour.
Page 13 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $18.38 an hour.
Page 10 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $19.10 an hour.
Page 12 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $19.10 an hour.
Page 18 of the report – landfill equipment operator – $19.10 an hour.
Yes, yes I know you are trying to argue semantics because it isn’t good enough to say “landfill equipment operator†when the title is actually “lead landfill equipment operatorâ€. It is the same damn thing and you know it…the only difference is how long they have been on the job.
More BULLSHIT cos. The following is what a “Landfill Equipment Operator” does.
Operate bulldozers, loaders, and landfill packers, and other light and heavy equipment to push, cover, and pack refuse, tires, asbestos, and other solid waste deposited in the City landfill, within the specifications required by federal and state law.
Here are the primary responsibilties of a “LEAD Landfill Equipment Operator”.
Operate light and heavy equipment including front-end loaders, sanders, dump trucks, tractors, sweepers, backhoes, forklifts, garbage crushers, cranes, landfill packers, motor graders, scrapers, bulldozers, asphalt paver, etc., in the performance of a variety of tasks including hauling and placement of materials, removal and replacement of large segments of asphalt street, and applying asphalt overlays; grade and level streets, alleys, roads, and parks; sweep streets, river channel and levee maintenance and repairs, push, cover, and pack refuse and other solid waste deposited in the City Landfill, grounds landscaping activities, etc.
Oversee and direct activities of crews consisting of four or more temporary and/or regular employees; assist in the training of regular and temporary employees and complete performance evaluations of temporary employees; prepare and submit daily work/project reports to department supervisor.
So once again cos. You’re full of it.
Speaking of which – do you know why you find so many city employees who have been working for the city for 15, 20, 25 years or more?
~cos
Maybe because working for the city it is possible to live out your retirement years without having to resort to eating canned dog food? Is that enough reason to want to stay cos?
Because they know they couldn’t even begin to make that much money in the private sector…
Truth be told, if the city was really competitive with the private sector, there would be a lot higher turnover rate – and those city employees know it.
~cos
For once you are right. City employees do not leave because they, unlike private sector cubicle warriors, actually make a wage that keeps them self sustainable.
But let’s get back to your original point – you asked for me to point out at least one line level “grunt†(your chosen word) city employee who is overpaid and I’ve done so. Again – you cannot find private sector jobs that pay as well with full benefits and a pension plan… it simply will not happen.
Thus, my original point stands – there are many city employees (at all levels) which are overpaid for what they do when compared to their peers in the private sector.
~cos
Are city employees overpaid, or are private sector workers in this town UNDERPAID. 60,000 plus in this town who make less than $14.00 an hour would tell YOU they are underpaid. 33,777 workers in this town who make LESS than $10.62 an hour would certainly agree they are underpaid.
Just like how you like to make little snide comments about where I post from or the size of cubicle I sit in or how I carry the water for First Premier…
~cos
Don’t forget those predators at Wells Fargo cos.