I attended the final meeting, and it was a doozy as usual. But before the meeting Mayor Munson was Greg Belfrage’s show talking about the EC, so I called in and told the mayor that 1) A food tax rebate program is a farce (he blamed the state for that) and that a retail tax increase will go ‘Down in Flames’ to which he replied, “it is the only option to get this thing built.” Well, then I guessed we are screwed. I also think he was pulling stuff out of the air, he claimed that a BB & B tax would only raise $5 million a year. Where did that number come from? It depends on how much you want to charge for a room or cocktail tax. I also suggested an advertising or corporate entertainment tax. He did not respond to the entertainment tax but did say, “I don’t understand how an advertising tax would work.” You served in the legislature and as our mayor for seven years and you don’t understand a simple concept like that? Give me a break.
As for the meeting, it had a surprise beginning, Jim Woster got together with Mike Cooper of the Planning Department and Jodi Schwan, of, I don’t know what department she works for anymore, and they devised a city rebate program that could be given to a certain income bracket, but when asked how much money it would take out of the 3rd penny tax collection or how many people would use it, they did not have a clue. Finally, Dana Dykhouse (who decided to show up to the last meeting) said, (paraphrasing) “It is irrelevant what the food tax debate will have on this project, it is our recommendation to fund it with a 3rd penny and we can let the city government and legislators figure that out later.” And he added, “We don’t set tax policy, we are just making a recommendation.” Well, Dana, you are recommending we raise taxes to pay for this joint, so yes, you are setting tax policy.
Charlene (TF Member) also chimed in again on this subject and said they explored all other funding options, and that she was upset that the public suggested otherwise. Bologna. Cheryl Rath has attended every single TF meeting and has taken detailed notes, she told me they spent “Very little time exploring other options.” Here is a short list of funding options I came up with sitting in McDonald’s drive-thru for 5 minutes;
• BB & B Tax
• Advertising Tax
• Corporate Entertainment Tax
• Usuary Fees (parking, tickets, rentals)
• Economic Impact Tax
• Luxury tax (EX: Recreational vehicles, luxury autos, jewelry, etc.)
How many of these came up in discussion Charlene? ZERO!
And now for the ridiculous cost estimates. If you think they lowballed the Pavilion, wait until you hear these costs;
• The cost for the entire complex not including a new Howard Wood would be between $135-165 million.
When they started to discuss the breakdown, that’s when those numbers started to rise.
• Darin Daby from the School Board felt that demolishing HW would cost more then the $15 million projection (more like $25 million)
• The CC expansion was estimated at $21 million (that was also considered a lowball)
• The Arena remodel was at $8 million (that too was considered a lowball)
• And the actual EC without parking or landscaping costs was estimated to cost about $115 million, which I think is extremely low.
I’ll be interested to see where these numbers are at on November 16 when they present the recommendation to the City Council. My assumption is they want to lowball this, and they did a heckuva job of it.
I can’t wait for my man Mike to be Mayor. He is a leader not a BS’er (although might be a belly scratcher).
Fuck that. Vote for me.
L3wis:
• BB & B Tax – the way to go, if it raises $5 mil a year then that covers over half of the principal & intrest payment, so your direct revenues would be very close to covering the rest. If the place loses a few hundred grand in a few years of it’s first decade, we can live with that.
• Advertising Tax – I agree w/Munson I don’t know what this is. I assume you want to sock businesses a % of every hundred dollars they spend on advertising? Which businesses will either pass thru or simply not do or cut back. Advertising is one of the first things people cut back on in tough times so I think this is a poor choice. What about private citizens who advertise on Craig’s list? What about ads on Facebook or Twitter? Too many options to try to chase and again if you do it across the board it will simply pass through to the consumer.
• Corporate Entertainment Tax – Another area that is drastically declining in the recession. Also another pass through.
• Usuary Fees (parking, tickets, rentals)- Fee = tax. Of course, the EC will charge for these things to begin with, if they gouge people than we will lose business to neighboring facilites/
• Economic Impact Tax – WTF is this? You measure the “Economic impact” of what? Businesses? the EC? Car crashes? Whatever this is I can already see it sucks ass.
• Luxury tax (EX: Recreational vehicles, luxury autos, jewelry, etc.) Once again, an area that is getting killed in this Economy, and yet another pass through. Several states have launched these to try to balance their fuct up budgets and when you dictate pay with a pay czar and bash the piss out of anyone who buys a yacht they tend to simply stop doing these these things or they move away.
For the millioneth effing time, look at Omaha & Qwest Center. We have a B&B tax at what 9%? If we raise it to 10% is that the $5 mill? Probabaly, but I don’t know fo sho. Omaha’s is in the high teens and they haven’t seen any decrease in travel. They are building another new B-ball stadium, Lincoln’s talking about a new EC and they have hotels going up and being renovated all over the place.
God:
“Fuck that. Vote for me.”
Bump + 1.
Make’s a pretty catchy bumper sticker.
Sy- I was just throwing ideas out there. I agree with you we can fund the place with a BB & B. The consensus is that the liquor and hospitality lobby got a hold of some TF members and rattled their cages a bit, so they dropped the idea. Like most things in SD that are taxed; stick it to the little guy.
Regarding that advertising tax, it generally is applied on the sales side, so if Kelo-land sells you a $10,000 block of airtime, they add “sales” tax to that. If Lamar rents you $2000 worth of billboard space, they add tax to the bill. If you buy $1500 worth of radio spots from backyard broadcasting – they add on tax.
It really isn’t any different than taxing any other service that is offered. The only reason advertising has never been taxed is because politicians don’t want to pay huge sums of tax every election cycle when they put their ads on every radio station, television station, billboard, or newspaper across the country.
Now on to that lame ass “pass through” argument, that is the kind of whining we always hear from business owners, but the reality is unless you have plans to remove all taxes from businesses meaning no income tax, no sales tax on their purchases, no real estate taxes for their structures, and no payroll taxes for their employees…. the argument about a pass through doesn’t hold water – because all of their costs are passed through.
So the hell what? Should private business be given a free pass just because they can and do pass those costs on? Hell no – because it can influence how they spend their dollars, and the fact is if you eliminated those taxes, a lot of fraud would occur by people running their own businesses simply for tax purposes.
Besides, if all of those costs were really passed onto the consumer 100%, businesses shouldn’t care one bit now should they.
“Besides, if all of those costs were really passed onto the consumer 100%, businesses shouldn’t care one bit now should they.”
I agree. I think an advertising tax is very fair. I have never understand their exemption anyhoo. We make people pay taxes on food but not on a business placing an ad? Silly.
T.I.F.
T.I.F.
T.I.F.
When is the city council meeting that they are presenting this too? I’m planning on going and speaking my mind, since eventually I guess won’t I have to deal with the effects of this?
You won’t be able to comment, it will be during an informational, you can show-up and watch though.
Monday, November 16, 4 PM, Carnegie Hall
Some states have tried to tax advertising but they run into problems with ads that run nationallay on networks. If they exclude that part and limit it to display along with radio and tv advertising that is placed withing SD it might have a chance of passing. I like Dave’s attitude more or less says, screw you we are going to do what we want, regardless of what you think.
John says:
November 4th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
I can’t wait for my man Mike to be Mayor. He is a leader not a BS’er (although might be a belly scratcher).
Your man Mike is also a pawn to the predators at First Premier. Just because he doesn’t work there while running for mayor does not mean Dana Dikehouse is not pulling his strings or filling his campaign warchest to overflowing. You can paint the stripes on a zebra and call it a Mustang, but guess what?
It’s still a zebra.
You should see Mike’s campaign vehicle now. It is plastered in vinyl, it looks like an ice cream truck.
I got this press release from ‘Bread for the World’
FOOD TAX REFUND PROGRAM REACHES
LESS THAN 1% OF LOW-INCOME FAMILIES
South Dakota’s food tax refund program reaches fewer than one percent of the state’s low-income households. During the most recent quarter, refunds went to only 630 households statewide. But South Dakota has at least 94,000 low-income households, 32% of the state’s households (the number at the time of the 2000 census).
Rebate-type programs are inherently ineffective in reaching low-income people. This has been known for years from the extremely low numbers reached by South Dakota’s tax refund program for low-income senior citizens and citizens with disabilities. No matter how simple the paperwork, low-income people are missed for many reasons. Low-income, and now some middle-income families, have many stresses and time-consuming issues. They lack financial advisors to keep them signed up for available benefits. Some do not want to go to the store with a debit card from the state. Also, many are elderly, ill, mentally incapable, emotionally distraught, or simply dealing with the crises that come more often to lower-income homes.
“We feel the state made a mistake five years ago in assuming the problems of taxing food could be solved with a rebate-type program,” says Cathy Brechtelsbauer, state coordinator for Bread for the World. “It should be clear by now that cutting the tax on food is the only practical and effective way to reach all the struggling families, elderly and disabled South Dakotans who are negatively impacted by the food tax.”
Even one percent off the food tax would give more benefit to low-income people, as a group, than the rebate program.
Optional addition to the article:
This year legislators sharply narrowed eligibility for the food tax rebates. They excluded households with any amount of food stamps, even partial allotments, leaving only about 12,000 of over 94,000 low-income households eligible.
“Denying refunds for people with food stamps, especially those with only partial allotments of food stamps, ignores the reality that food stamps commonly run out before the end of the month. Then food must be purchased with hard-to-come-by cash normally needed for other necessities like transportation or laundry,” says Brechtelsbauer.
Store clerk Debbie Koppman misses the rebate that formerly came on her debit card every quarter, “It came in real handy. In that month, it was real nice to get it just when food stamps were running low. You could buy milk or cereal or some hamburger that you needed.”
You should see Mike’s campaign vehicle now. It is plastered in vinyl, it looks like an ice cream truck.
Does it play music?
Yup, Broadway musicals.
Fabulous.