Please let’s stop pretending we care about REAL gun control

This is an excellent article about gun control;

Americans do a great job of proclaiming our collective shock and outrage when some nut for the gazillionth time opens fire on a crowd of innocent bystanders at a movie theater, a college, a high school, a museum, or a post office, but at some point, if we aren’t going to do anything about it, maybe it’s time we stopped the charade of pretending we actually care.

How many times does someone have to drown in front of us, while we do nothing (and, instead, actually enable the death), before it’s time to conclude that perhaps we are part of the problem?

Like I have said in the past, I support 2nd Amendment rights. What I don’t support is making it too easy for people to get guns. Before you are allowed to drive, you must first pass a test. What test do gun owners have to pass about safety and proper handling of guns? And seriously, may I am ignorant to such a test existing, but I can’t find one.

This is a song about gun violence, that almost got censored at the Supersucker’s concerts after Columbine. Because, you know, songs kill people, not guns.


#1 Testor15 on 07.21.12 at 9:00 pm

This is not 2nd Amendment stuff, this is a war on America to make us afraid. We do not have to worry about ‘Muslim’ terrorists, we have to worry about the ginned up gun nuts who do not know how to deal with problems. When we actually care enough to tell the NRA and the TeaBaggers to pull their collective brains out of their butts.

Thanks L3wis!

#2 Justin on 07.21.12 at 9:19 pm

I’ve been having a little discussion on it with the illustrious Mr. Gordon Howie:

I get why he’s defensive, this is his issue.

#3 Justin on 07.21.12 at 9:53 pm

and here, from memory only is my comment he first posted then decided against.

(as best I can from memory like the mormon books)

Would it be a good idea to go shooting guns around in the invisibility of tear gas?

Because it seems to me that the theory Open Carry advocates has failed in this instance.

Your argument should be based on statistics, rather than one incident, but it is clear it is no panacea for random acts of violence.

I’m fine with the gun laws, just sick of the rhetoric, thanks.

#4 Detroit Lewis on 07.21.12 at 11:08 pm

Justin, I guess we agree on something.

All I have ever asked of gun owners is to be informed and safe. That’s it. When is the NRA going to promote those causes?

#5 Justin on 07.21.12 at 11:15 pm

I think we agree on a lot. I think you care a lot more about the events center than I do but I like to argue.

What about ammo control if not gun control?

#6 Justin on 07.22.12 at 12:08 am

why no Chris Rock video? do you have to pay for it?

#7 Detroit Lewis on 07.22.12 at 3:30 am

#8 Muqhtar on 07.22.12 at 1:26 pm

I think we should make a Gun/Events Center. An events center specifically for shooting at things! There would be like a big pinata in the middle of it but everyone would buy tickets and shoot at it.

#9 Pathloss on 07.22.12 at 3:44 pm

I want to always be sure the city knows we are armed to the teeth. Yes, some go crazy and shoot away. However, SFPD goes into a quiet neighborhood and unloads 70 rounds. Who’s crazier? The basis for the 2nd amendment is that both sides know they’re locked and loaded.

#10 Pathloss on 07.22.12 at 3:49 pm

Enough about this. Where can I buy me one of those SWAT tanks. I’d only drive it in the Saint Patty’s day parade.

#11 rufusx on 07.22.12 at 4:29 pm

Both “sides” Pathloss? Who’s the “other” side?

Since 1968 – over 1 MILLION Americans have been killed by gun violence. How many have been “saved” by NRA and advocates?

#12 l3wis on 07.22.12 at 5:14 pm

PL – Ruf has you on this one. While I think it may be important that citizens have a right to bear arms, I also think that safety and proper use of those weapons doesn’t go far enough. That includes safety for citizens AND law enforcement.

#13 Poly43 on 07.22.12 at 6:33 pm

The NRA can be summed up very briefly in this short youtube vid.

#14 Detroit Lewis on 07.22.12 at 7:29 pm

Poly, you have posted this video several times. I hope your wifey doesn’t know you are the internets.

#15 Helga on 07.22.12 at 9:04 pm

Why is it harder to buy several boxes of pseudoephedrine then to buy 6000 rounds of ammunition?

#16 Joan on 07.22.12 at 9:19 pm

What I would like to know is how they determine a person is of sound mind and law abiding, for the open carry law. From everything that has come out about the young man in Colorado the only thing he had on record was one traffic ticket. It sounds like nobody has come forward with anything bad about him. He definitely shouldn’t have been allowed to buy guns. Also maybe the places that sell law enforcement equipment should only be allowed to sell to actual police departments and not individuals.

#17 Detroit Lewis on 07.22.12 at 9:52 pm

Well, Joan, that would be violating people’s 2nd amendment rights, don’t you know. I have a right to buy body armor. I am pretty sure our forefathers put that in the 2nd amendment.

#18 rufusx on 07.23.12 at 1:09 pm

The whole gun-nut argument that gun ownership “prevents tyranny” is so specious anymore. How is that AR-15 gonna shoot down a missle from a drone circling at 20,000 feet? It may have been a good idea back when governments (tyrants) didn’t have access to so vastly superior weaponry, (anybody here have their own satelittes? A-bombs?) but now a days…….. just f’n stoopid.

#19 Testor15 on 07.24.12 at 12:27 am

Instead of an educated thoughtful populace we have gun toting tyrants ready to force their ignorant views down my throat by threat. I am so afraid…

#20 l3wis on 07.24.12 at 8:51 am

Still don’t get it. I haven’t owned a gun my entire life and have not used one since I was 16 (hunting). Still don’t get why I need one.

#21 Randall on 07.25.12 at 7:43 am

Can’t carry shampoo onto an airplane, but can buy an automatic weapon at a gun show with no ID, no background check, no waiting period…
the no-fly list does not apply, either.

Ever been to a gun show and seen the crazy-eyed weirdos wearing full camo and loading up their trunks with weapons?

Three times as many ppl are murdered every year with guns …but ya can’t carry a pen-knife into an airport.


Just let some terrorist try to hijack a plane with all of us armed to the teeth! We’ll riddle his body with so many holes he’ll never by-God try THAT happy-crappy again!

…of course the fuselage will also be riddled with holes – but we’ll go down in flames of FREEDOM!

#22 Craig on 07.25.12 at 8:35 am

Randall, you can’t buy an automatic weapon at a gunshow with no ID. The transfer of automatic weapons is heavily regulated and is VERY expensive. If someone is found to be in possession of an automatic weapon without the proper forms and approvals and tax stamps from the ATF they can do prison time.

I would guess you are confusing an automatic weapon with a semi-automatic weapon, but even then the whole gun show loophole is a bit of a misconception. If Bob goes into a gun store and legally purchases a firearm, he can then in turn sell it for cash to Larry a week later with no paperwork. Gun shows don’t make that possible, they just facilitate a place for buyers and sellers to meet much like craigslist allows buyers and sellers of cars to meet without having to be a licensed dealer or fill out all the necessary state paperwork.

#23 Craig on 07.25.12 at 8:51 am

rufusx: The whole gun-nut argument that gun ownership “prevents tyranny” is so specious anymore. How is that AR-15 gonna shoot down a missle from a drone circling at 20,000 feet?

Here is one of the problems with that logic. Tyranny doesn’t always simply come from the federal government via the military. However, tell those people over in Syria and those who were in Lybia that some devoted men with small arms can’t fight an opressive regime and let me know what they say.

You may also wish to read up about the Battle of Athens which occurred back in the 1940s. It involved a corrupt sheriff who was essentially controlling the county as well as controlling the vote, and had it not been for men and women willing to stand up against tyranny you can be sure that type of thing would happen again.

Either way it really doesn’t matter. The 2nd Amendment affords all Americans the right to bear arms, and opinions don’t change that fact. People may not always like guns or like the Constitution, but that is the law of the land and it isn’t going away.

Meanwhile, Switzerland issues every adult male a firearm and trains them to use it. Most often it is a Sig550 assault rifle, although in other cases it is a 9mm SIG Sauer pistol. They have one of the highest rates of gun ownership on the planet and yet their rate of gun related crime is one of the lowest in the world.

Guns aren’t the problem – and prescription drugs or automobiles kill more people every year than guns do. The problem is the people who have them… or you might argue the people who don’t. Criminals don’t care about laws so banning or restricting guns only impacts the law abiding citizen.

Think about it – do you think a criminal would break into a house if they knew there was a very strong chance the homeowner had a semi-automatic assault rifle and was trained to use it? Not very likely – and if they did there is a good chance they won’t have the opportunity to do it twice.

#24 Poly43 on 07.25.12 at 9:16 am

Well written Craig. I have family that thinks exactly as you do. From strawman purchases and sales to your take on self defense in the home. I guess my level of paranoia does not reach that far.

I would feel uneasy in a city park if there were people around me exercising there open carry rights. Uneasy enough to leave and let the cowboys of the world defend the park from the bad guys.

#25 l3wis on 07.25.12 at 10:27 am

“Meanwhile, Switzerland issues every adult male a firearm and trains them to use it. Most often it is a Sig550 assault rifle, although in other cases it is a 9mm SIG Sauer pistol. They have one of the highest rates of gun ownership on the planet and yet their rate of gun related crime is one of the lowest in the world.”

Because they train them how to use the weapon.

#26 Craig on 07.25.12 at 11:06 am

I agree l3wis, training is important. I support training before someone can get a CCW permit just as I support drivers ed training before someone can get a drivers license. This is one reason I would never be a member of the NRA, because they seem to think you should be able to get a free gun as a prize inside of a box of Cherrios with no training or experience needed.

I also should note that while I support the right of all Americans to bear arms, I also support their right to abstain. I don’t want us to get to the point where we feel people should be forced to buy weapons or get trained. That seems like it is just as much of a threat to personal freedom as taking away a few guns.

Poly – I wouldn’t say I’m paranoid and I don’t even own an assault rifle. If someone broke into my home I’d sooner reach for a golf club than a gun, because I’m not about to start putting holes in someone knowing where a stray bullet could end up, and around here it seems most of the time when you hear of a “break in” it is either a high school kid looking to score some CDs, or it is a drunk who confused his house with one two doors down. I’d hardly say either of those two scenarios is worthy of a gunshot, but I’ll still support the right of people to defend themselves if they feel it is necessary. I imagine a battered woman who has a protection order against a violent ex-husband probably has a lot better reason to keep a gun handy than I do.

Also agree that I might feel uneasy around certain people exercising their right to open carry in public. An off duty cop or US Marshall? No problem. But Skippy the HVAC installer who just happens to like collecting Glocks? I’d rather he keep it locked up at home. The problem is you can’t tell which is which, and that is probably why I’m always a little doubtful.

Funny story – I was at Qdoba on 41st and saw this woman with what appeared to be a compact Sig Sauer strapped to her waist under a light jacket. For a few seconds I was shocked because that just isn’t something you see every day and I would even say it was somewhat uncomfortable, but as she turned I noticed on the other side of her waist she had a badge and suddenly I just ignored the gun. To some degree it boils down to knowing someone has been properly trained and that helps put my mind at ease.

Then again we live in South Dakota – we don’t have a gang problem to speak of and we don’t fear for our safety when we spend a day at Falls Park. Maybe in a different part of the country I might be more thankful to see a few people packing if for no other reason than it acts like a deterrent.

#27 xdsteel on 07.25.12 at 12:37 pm

Poly43 an l3wis, I get it you hate people who have guns. Legally or otherwise. You are the ones so busy judging other gun-owners and the NRA that you forget to blame the criminal who actually committed the crime.

Craig- So now we have to have a badge to make YOU feel comfortable? please. how about people in the military. should they wear thier uniforms and carry so that you feel comfortable. Well too bad they can not anyway. How about all you guys start worrying about yourselves for once and stop judging others.

From your post Craig you seem to notice a lot of things. How can you not notice the gangs in Sioux Falls. Hate to break it to you but there are violent gangs in Sioux Falls.

#28 l3wis on 07.25.12 at 1:01 pm

“Poly43 an l3wis, I get it you hate people who have guns. Legally or otherwise.”

See, XD, this is why people call you ‘gun nuts’. I don’t hate gun owners, I support your 2nd Amendment rights, but I also think that we shouldn’t be able to hand out guns like freaking candy. Responsible gun owners is what I am advocating, heck, I hope you are too? But maybe not? Are you saying every Tom, Dick and Harry should be able to carry guns, just because? That is pretty scary.

“You are the ones so busy judging other gun-owners and the NRA that you forget to blame the criminal who actually committed the crime.”

Ironically, they weren’t a criminal when they purchased the gun. Committing a crime, is what makes you a criminal. Duh. All I have ever asked is that people who purchase and use guns legally be certified or licensed that they know how to use the weapon, store the weapon, etc. Is that too much to ask? Seriously? You make the assumption that using a gun is like brushing your teeth. Not the case. I used several firearms on the farm when hunting, they are complicated and dangerous. You know this, but your arrogance gets in the way of safety. Would you drive a car w/o brakes?

#29 Craig on 07.25.12 at 1:14 pm

“So now we have to have a badge to make YOU feel comfortable?”

That isn’t what I said. I am merely stating that if you see someone who IS wearing a badge, you know they have been properly trained on that firearm and it helps put the mind at ease. I don’t give it a second thought when I see someone like that wearing gun no matter where it is. There are a lot of wannabe toughguys out there that like to wear a gun, and because the price of admission is simply the price of the gun itself, you never know if someone has had any training. Under fire, even an officer or a trained member of the military can have difficulty hitting the target – and they probably know what the actual target is. Someone with no training may not be so lucky – and when guns start going off and bullets start flying around, there are often consequences of errant shots. The risks are multiplied exponentially for those with no formal training.

I’m not saying we should ban guns or that we need to document and catalog anyone who owns them. I’m merely saying it would be nice if there was some type of basic training course prior to people being handed a CCW permit and told they can now carry their concealed weapon almost anywhere unless it is strictly forbidden.

“From your post Craig you seem to notice a lot of things. How can you not notice the gangs in Sioux Falls.”

Speaking of noticing, you will notice I said “we don’t have a gang problem to speak of” which is true. I’m not talking about the small timers who want to act tough or claim they have territory that nobody else even wants. We do not have gang shootouts or drive-bys. We don’t have massive gang fights in the park on Sunday nights, and people aren’t getting shot for wearing the wrong color of shirt as they walk along 11th street. What we do get is a few people who have moved here to expand their weed distribution network and a few taggers who want to be the first to stake a claim.

Comparing our “gangs” to those found in Chicago or LA is like comparing the Turner County Fair to DisneyWorld.

#30 Poly43 on 07.25.12 at 4:14 pm

Poly43 an l3wis, I get it you hate people who have guns.


Wrong. I own an over under upland bird gun and a goose gun. Admittedly they’ve been locked in my gun cabinet for quite some time now. Occasionally take shots at clay pigeons. Not into the “game” hunting as “sport” much anymore though.

My real issue is with rapid fire, high caliber, easily obtainable weapons. There is no room, in my opinion, for these in our society.

Have not seen it yet, but YES, I would feel uncomfortable in your company, in a park, open carrying. This is an issue you will be hard pressed to convince me of otherwise.

#31 xdsteel on 07.25.12 at 6:46 pm

Here is the thing. I do not have to justify to anyone what I own or what I wish to own. I don’t have to justify to anyone how I carry. I believe in training, I don’t believe forcing people to train.”Certifying and Licensing” is not crime prevention.
I believe if you own a firearm you choose how to be responsible and that no one else is. I believe blaming the NRA and organizations are wrong because it is stupid to think that such organizations want mass killings.

Craig, Fine you don’t like it when people open carry. Leave them alone then, if you want to talk thats fine, but don’t be surprised if they have a conflicting say. People act like OCers are evil or something.

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